Sta.sh
Content
Need to chill.
Seriously, alot of people are trying to figure what's wrong with the mainstream and how it's not reaching kids and teens as it should be. and I'm starting to see while a big part of it lies in the hands of DC and Marvel big wigs, another huge part of the blame is also fans who refuse to let anything change about their favorite heroes but yet still want something new out of it. Seriously any attempt a company makes at appealing to the next gen. of readers, is often shot down by fans. Like I just read some hate about the Next Avengers movie coming out next week. Why? cause heaven forbid a story be told about the children of the Avengers. I mean why read something new that will most likely still be very similar in tone to the original. I'm sure cap's son, acts a hell of alot like Cap. At least these kids are "avenging" the deaths of their parents, giving a reason for them to be called the Avengers. cause the original team never avenged anything. lol more like the term justice league/society was taken.
But anyway fans really need to relax a bit and let mainstream comics grow a little, and stop forcing the big 2 to find new ways to tell the same stories.
Like just recently at a con panel, they asked fans who;d they want to be the successor of Batman, and most of them voted they only wanted to see Bruce as Batman. Dear lord, how long are we gonna milk these franchises before they become so stale that they appeal only to the kids who bought them 20 or more years ago.
i mean there's a whole new generation of comic fans/creators who've never picked up a mainstream book, which is fine but my fear is that if that keeps happening then these old icons will fade away, and to be honest they're not being replaced with more noble or inspring people. (quick example, peter petrelli and most of the good guys in heroes, who are so "human" that they really don't do anything but whine)
the cool things about the mainstream super heroes is that they're all grounded in strong moral ideas, that aren't necessarily connected to any religion, thus making them accessible to alot of people. as a kid, reading with great power comes great responsibility, forever changed me. and i think that losing ideas like this far down the line just sucks.
not to say that the manga and indy books that the next generation are reading now don't do these kinds of things, especially in regards to shonen manga and anime. seriously if you haven't read naruto or watched tengen toppa gurren lagann, you need to cause these stories feature characters that don't let their being "human and relatable" get in the way of being ass kickers.
it's just that the mainstream icons need to stay around as well, and that won't happen if the big 2 keep catering to the wills of their current fan base.
at the very least i wish they;d pull a George Lucas,and worry more about getting new fans, like he did with the prequels and what he's doing with the current animated series, and not so much pleasing the old ones cause they're already hooked and no matter how much they complain about any new material will still spend money on it.
so old fans, relax, it's okay to let grayson or drake be batman, i promise you your childhood won't be ruined.
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Watching the same, lame super heroes from the past walking around with their underwear on the outside of their spandex and "occassionally" saying something that remotely connects to a current generation, or injecting sentiments of a more modern does NOT make for a better book. It seems only creators seem to understand that whereas braindead fans seem to be willing to accept the same old crap simply because they're told that its "good" and they're not allowed to really make the choice themselves as to what quality is to them individually.
There are tons of stories being created on the low that people are hoping will change the current trend but its hard to tell since people keep going back to same crap. Its not just prevelant in the mainstream industry its even prevelant on this website. Look at what's considered popular or respected on deviantart. Nothing but fanart that usually isn't even drawn well (although there are some that do it well) but it wins people over simply based on subject matter. Everytime I see it, it angers me that people want something new but are afraid to give it a try or give props to someone that's actually trying to make something different.
There's been several times I've been close to leaving deviantart simply because people only respond to Naruto, Inu-yasha, furry , or yaoi shit. I've been in chatrooms and watched people post shitty art of established characters and it get praised whereas someone puts up something original that looks wonderful to see it overlooked for a conversation consisting of " I wonder if Sasuke would fall in love with a kitsune?"
Seriously, that's retarded. Anyway I didn't mean to go on such a rant but when you've been on DA as long as I have and put in work to make something great and you seem to be overlooked, no matter what kind of artist you are you tend to be a little enraged. I agree wholeheartedly with Kross29, and I really feel that Heroes is HIGHLY overrated...highly.
as for anime fans on DA, i think they're a slightly diffrent breed. they seem to accept new things, they may get overly fanatical but that's fine, as long as they appreciate something new. for example naruto's popular now but before then there was DBZ, and it looks like soul eater and gurren lagann are vying for the spot now. seems like the fanbase is ok with checking out new stuff.
i just kinda wish comic fans would do a little more of the same, and i think in time it will.
as for DA, i like it alot here, but i;m not looking to get alot of pageviews so it doesn;t bother me, i figure the more successful and known i become in the comics and cartoon industry the more people will look me up, so the exposure will come with time. and i think this is a great place to network with fans and other professionals.
but i am sorry to hear your disgust. just keep at it, despite whether or not you get alot of attention here, your work still reach alot of people and in time i;m sure it will get better.
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Well said, sir. Well said ^__^
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Comics will be a niche market for the near or possibly foreseeable future, unless changes are made. Here are my ideas. I've done no market training or study, strictly my thoughts and observations.
There is a great deal to be learned from the manga marketing style in the US. I think they have done an excellent job and US comics should mimic some of that.
1. MALE/FEMALE/AGE TARGETTING – the use of shoujo, shounen, seinan and whatever other descriptors they use is extremely useful. I would adopt a self imposed rating system mimicking the US movie rating system. I think this would help parents a great deal and would allow them to feel safe letting the kid pick whatever they want in that section. I don’t think the male/female targeting needs to be labeled as you can tell very quickly from the content. DC/MARVEL have started to do this with Marvel Adventures and DC comics based off their cartoon shows, but further expansion is an excellent idea.
I would essentially do 2 universes a G universe and a PG-13 universe which would remain vaguely parallel but would play out differently based upon the whims of the creative teams/editorial staff. I would allow for creative freedom so that they don’t have to be consistent with each other. I would then have R and NC-17 rated comics completely independent or loose spin-offs of a PG-13 universe for the most part. I think the bulk of the market now would be PG-13. I would have parents be the enforcers of the rating system, or store owners as they will.
Secondly, female readers are very poorly targeted by US comics, which is why so much of the manga market seems to be girls. DC/MARVEL should encourage new and imaginative stories that would still be fantastic, but fit girls a little more. From what I have seen they tend to like more fantasy, less gory gothic horror and romance to some degree. They seem to prefer less fighting and more subtle character development and conflict.
3. FORMAT – I personally, greatly prefer the smaller, fatter [150-200 pg] format of manga books. I dig black and white comics just fine. I prefer Alex Toth/Mike Mignola/Eduardo Risso-esque B&W [which I call a fat-black-style for some quirky reason of mine] or certain manga styles w/toning or at least grays done on photoshop or something. Americans tend to do flat grays, when they need to use a heck of a lot more gradient. B&W makes the book cheaper, but give it a nice color cover and maybe 1-2 pages of pin-ups/color so you can understand the coloring of major characters.
I would ditch the American monthly issue size and length almost completely. The art doesn’t suffer much at all from shrinkage to manga size. I also am not a fan of the glossy expensive paper American Comics use. It is prettier but it reflects the light more and it has a tendency to smudge and fingerprinterize [my own word, ty]. I preferred earlier abandoned matte stocks which you would find in the Milestone Comics [wiki link - [link] as well as in the Marvel Adventures/DC animation comics of today.
4. STORY ARCS – I think manga tends to take too long to really get anywhere. I enjoyed Naruto somewhat but got very tired of extensive flashbacks which stalled the story. I like lots of non-meandering plot. I would tend to keep closer to American faster paced plotting than to Japanese plotting.
I am actually a big fan of Joss Whedon and would enjoy a lot more mimicking of his seasonal format. In his TV shows there is a season-long foe/story arc that is slowly moved along while numerous sub-plots are more quickly done that are separate and distinct but may or may not add a piece to the uber-arc. Character development is also excellent, in that people progress slowly but true to the character. The patience in taking Willow from nerdy wimp t o superwitch over 5 years of episodes or so was quite admirable and fun to watch.
I have never liked big crossovers. I like guest stars and whatnot, but these big old Crisis, Civil War things are usually just irritating.
5. PASSING THE MANTLE – I too would enjoy if superheroes would pass the mantle on to another generation, letting the older version either die, retire, or turn into a mentor/teacher. It’s not necessary, but would be a nice change of pace.
6. GENRE – I think DC/MARVEL should also put out one book in the following genres periodically with relatively small print-runs: mystery, romance, drama, horror, sci-fi, and fantasy. I think it would help grow the genres slowly and relatively safely.
I think that’s enough from me.
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Nick
What? You pooped in the refrigerator? And you ate the whole... wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? Heck, I'm not even mad; that's amazing.
i like the idea of G and PG 13 universes. which i guess they kind got going with the marvel adventures line and the johnny dc imprint. the problem with those is that i think they still appeal more to people my age and older than kids. hell as a kid i would have never read most of those books cause the stories, for the most part talk down to kids. of course there are exceptions.
i just read that marvel letting madhouse studios produce 4 anime series based on their characters to start airing in japan by 2010. definitely a plus.
but anyway thanx for the awesome reply.
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I'd prefer if the rated G section would basically be closer to Silver Age style stories, but with more current character/set design. You know stuff influenced by manga and even influenced by some video game art.
PG-13 would have deeper characterization, more complex plots, and more adult views of the world [more moral grays than easy black and white morality].
Do you know which marvel characters?
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Nick
What? You pooped in the refrigerator? And you ate the whole... wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? Heck, I'm not even mad; that's amazing.